Top Action Sci Fi of all time? (AVATAR DISCUSSION)

[Abraham Smashington]

I'm drinking, I don't want to go point by point at the moment but here's my deal...

Cameron crafted a fucking awesome world. HE crafted awesome technology. He crafted a pretty badass back story. All of the characters were FUCKING CARICATURES. That was my problem after reflecting on the movie. There is not one memorable character in the whole thing, except the hardass military guy. And only because he's just a more over the top version Sgt Apone from ALIENS. I'll give you the other points, but this movie is not a well written flick. I'm sorry man. It's just not.

[goober8008]

But what I don't get is why you feel D9 is only an honorable mention compared to Avatar. Avatar didn't seem real. It was too pretty. Like I said in the Avatar thread, it was still pretty when the ashes were falling. I just couldn't connect with those characters and that world.

You and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum my friend. I read about your deal with Primer...that movie bored the shit out of me. And yes, I got it...sort of. But time travel has been explored much more interestingly in other movies. It's Sci Fi for the art house crowd! Wooooo! Primer sucked.

[Abraham Smashington]

Robocop 2 > Robocop

Also T2 is not even close to being better than T1 from a story standpoint. It's bloated, has one of the shittiest kid actors ever (seriously, he ruins the flick) and is basically a retread. I prefer T3 over it because it at least had the balls to nuke the goddamn planet at the end.

[Abraham Smashington]

You and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum my friend. I read about your deal with Primer...that movie bored the shit out of me. And yes, I got it...sort of. But time travel has been explored much more interestingly in other movies. It's Sci Fi for the art house crowd! Wooooo! Primer sucked.

Oh man,. You just opened up a can of worms. Prepare for the ASIAN shitstorm coming your way from nerdious on Primer. Primer is probably the best time travel movie ever made, as it actually makes sense. Terminator flicks (while great) fall apart if you start to nitpick the actual time line, and the less said about the shitty T4 the better.

[Abraham Smashington]

I think people are being too critical out of some sense that Cameron was obligated to make the story as ground breaking as the technology.

Because he hyped it saying it was going to change film forever. It didn't even come close. Once again, I fucking dug on the movie. It's just not the second coming. But I am seeing it again, which I never do in the theater.

[goober8008]

I'm drinking, I don't want to go point by point at the moment but here's my deal...

Cameron crafted a fucking awesome world. HE crafted awesome technology. He crafted a pretty badass back story. All of the characters were FUCKING CARICATURES. That was my problem after reflecting on the movie. There is not one memorable character in the whole thing, except the hardass military guy. And only because he's just a more over the top version Sgt Apone from ALIENS. I'll give you the other points, but this movie is not a well written flick. I'm sorry man. It's just not.

Sorry, you're gonna have to go point by point, I think I make a pretty good case up there.

2nd, the Colonol is more than just Apone, he's an amalgam of every space marine badass Cameron ever made. We should all note that Cameron pretty much created the "space marine" cliche that is copied to death these days, and he took that cliche to its absolute limit. With the most hard as nails, blackwater-est, scarred up, acid pissin', mean dude with a gun depiction ever. He was hilariously bad ass. "We'll blow a hole in their racial memory so deep they won't come within 10 clicks of us" LOL!

Anyway, if you can tell me what was so compelling about Primer I might watch it twice, but only if you read my entire argument for Avatar's writing.

[Abraham Smashington]

Dialogue is a huge part of writing. The dialogue in Avatar was laughable man. I agree with Hater apparently.

You are not in Kansas anymore. You are on Pandora, ladies and gentleman.

From your badass Colonel. Okay, sure, let's SEE WHY IT'S NOT LIKE KANSAS. Big Rhino thingy and cat with mandibles doesn't count.

[Abraham Smashington]

But once again, it's a goddamn entertaining flick.

[Abraham Smashington]

I'm drunk. Not a cop out, just a warning.

"I disagree with you entirely. First, I didn't have the whole story figured out in the first five minutes, other than "Good guy joins the natives, gets the girl, wins the fight against bad guys." But I pretty much know that much any time I sit down to watch an action movie. I knew Neo was going to discover he was "The One" and destroy the bad guys when I watched the Matrix, still a spectacular sci fi movie. I knew Luke was going to use the force and defeat the Empire, the star wars trilogy still rocked.

Yep, even though I had the whole movie figured out (seriously, it's not that hard) it's still an awesome flick.

The basic story formula is obvious any time you watch an action sci fi movie, doesn't mean their aren't dozens of variations and innovations to make for an original story. By your standard, if you know a story is going to follow a 3 act formula involving setup, conflict, and resolution, then it can't be good writing? That's a little harsh don't you think? I feel sorry if you felt the dialogue wasn't interesting or exciting, but the allusions to the technology was fascinating to me, the romance was better than average (When he sees her with his human eyes at the end I found powerful and more than I would expect from just about any other sci fi movie).

Dude, dialogue is a huge part of a story. The allusions to tech and backstory was great. I wanted to see some of it, or have some actual conversations about it. Instead we got: "DO WHAT WE WANT, WE GIVE YOU LEGS"

The motherly relationship that develops between Weaver and Worthington is well shown, when she's forcing him to eat and drink his food before heading into his Avatar, or taking care of him during the 2nd act, was nice development. I laughed more than once ("SHUT UP AND FLY STRAIGHT!" or "I'm a warrior...from the...jarhead clan.") Memorable, funny lines that aren't as formulaic as you get from your Michael Bay or Bruckheimer garbage that dominates Hollywood that will typically rely on racial stereotypes or gross out jokes to get a laugh.

Not to be that guy, but the movie is kinda racist man. The tribal people need the white man to fix their shit. The white man is king.

I think people are being too critical out of some sense that Cameron was obligated to make the story as ground breaking as the technology. This was an epic sci fi action movie, not a deep nuanced exploration of a complex topic. This genre of film, if it has a moral or a point, tends to be obvious and straightforward, as it should be. This movie had a point, an obvious one, that I agreed with, I liked.

Nothing wrong with that, it was a entertaining movie.

Though you may assert that you knew what would eventually happen, you didn't know the beasts breathed through some genetically superior direct-to-lung jet engine biology. You didn't know the girl would ride the awesome menacing beast from the 1st act into battle at the end against the Colonel. You didn't know Weaver was going to die, or that ultimately the female protagonist would save the male protagonist in the final battle, instead of the other way around, as in most action movies. The movie was VERY creative, avoided plenty of cliches while doing others in fun new ways.

If you didn't know Weaver was going to die, you weren't paying attention. they alluded to it when talking about the special tree or whatever. "I'd die to get a sample of that..." The female always saves the day in Cameron's movies, well maybe not always, but usually. Aliens, Terminator, shit even True Lies.

Also, I doubt a child could utilize narrative schemes in brilliant ways to maintain cohesion, pacing, and tension in the ways Avatar has. Stop for a moment to consider how the story begins being told in the 1st person past-tense. This is very effective for providing information and creating mood, but to provide the kind of tension and immediacy that a great action movie needs during it's later parts you need to have 3rd person present tense. The movie snaps to this narrative style instantly and seamlessly, when you realize he's talking to a recorder. Watch it again, drop the cynicism, and appreciate Cameron for the storytelling genius he is."

I still want a movie based on the treatment.

[Nathan]

Aliens
Predator
Both are top for sure

Does Robocop count?
On that line: Starship Troopers
Side note: Great Sci-Fi doesn't require action but it helps

[Nathan]

Not gonna quote your above post, but damn Rob. Otherwise I'm gonna say otherwise. Hi, I'm Nathan, I'm old.

[Abraham Smashington]

Meaning what?

[Abraham Smashington]

Also, I feel the need once again to state that I really dug the movie. It's just a tad hollow in the end in my opinion. I still think that Terminator and The Abyss are better written movies than Avatar.

[goober8008]

I'm drunk. Not a cop out, just a warning.



Yep, even though I had the whole movie figured out (seriously, it's not that hard) it's still an awesome flick.



Dude, dialogue is a huge part of a story. The allusions to tech and backstory was great. I wanted to see some of it, or have some actual conversations about it. Instead we got: "DO WHAT WE WANT, WE GIVE YOU LEGS"



Not to be that guy, but the movie is kinda racist man. The tribal people need the white man to fix their shit. The white man is king.



Nothing wrong with that, it was a entertaining movie.



If you didn't know Weaver was going to die, you weren't paying attention. they alluded to it when talking about the special tree or whatever. "I'd die to get a sample of that..." The female always saves the day in Cameron's movies, well maybe not always, but usually. Aliens, Terminator, shit even True Lies.



I still want a movie based on the treatment.

Werd. Agree to disagree, let's not kill the thread by taking the avatar argument down to the details, we can go back and forth over the phone some time, call me, I'm sitting around...

Back to the Top 5's, we stick to action Sci Fi because it's hard enough. If we went straight Sci Fi though I'd put Contact at the top of my list Another Question though, do comic book movies count? X-Men 2 and the New Incredible Hulk would be due for honorable mention if you ask me...and the first new batman movie, not "The Dark Knight" but the first one with Raz' Algul.

[Abraham Smashington]

Fuck yes sir. Contact is aces. I'd say comic book flicks are a different breed.