Nirvana vs. the world

[Anderson]

We won't have any of those Derp type shenanigans around these parts good sir.

You know what's more awesome? He did what I accused him of doing, then he said he wasn't doing it.

But?


HE JUST WENT AND DID IT!

[Captain Russ]

And no one cares.

[Anderson]

And no one cares.

America cares.

[Matt]

And no one cares.

If there is a hell,
I'll see you there.

[Anderson]

Eat a dick, Krol.

[BMichaelKrol]

Before I eat a dick, I'll have to digest your word salad. Seriously, you have some real gems in there that need a few more editorial passes.

I'll have more later, but I can't believe you discussed the cultural shift in the 90s without mentioning Jane's Addiction and Lollapalooza even in passing. Both set the stage for Nirvana to do what they did. And I dont know anyone who would argue that the Smiths and the Replacements were the vanguards of the Alternative rock explosion of the early 90s, both of whom were either dead or dying by the time the 90s rolled around. Fuck man, Depeche Mode had a bigger impact on the mainstream than either of those two acts.

[Timothy225]

Great article, Troy.

I can kind of see where Krol's going with the Replacements, etc. being vanguards for the 90's, and even Cobain acknowledged such bands as influences. But, speaking as an old geezer, even those bands found influence from the punk movement about a decade or so before. The DIY grittiness of 70's punk, be it from the US or UK, is all over 90's grunge/independent music. It'll also be all over the next wave of music (we're way overdue on that score) - it goes in cycles, starting even in the 50's when Rock N' Roll first started gaining popularity.

Troy is right that the LA scene was burning out at the time, too. The harder stuff was being replaced by power ballads and slower songs, but those bands were all established at that point. Audiences are always, always looking for new shit, especially as they get older, akin to how some drug users start looking for better, stronger drugs to give them better highs because the older stuff ain't doing it for them anymore. The alternative/college stuff was getting more exposure as most of the teens who grew up on a hair metal diet were being exposed to all sorts of bands via college radio (it was when I hit college where I discovered REM, the Replacements, Husker Du, and harder bands like Motorhead, etc. thanks to the college radio station, roommates, folks you met at class, etc.). You get older, you get more wisdom and experiences, your tastes change.

[Anderson]

I was referencing Pitchfork's recent attempts at trying to rebrand the 1986-1990 era of college rock as the first real wave of Alternative. Not that I agree with it, but it's out there.

You lost, Krol. Just admit defeat.

[BMichaelKrol]

I was referencing Pitchfork's recent attempts at trying to rebrand the 1986-1990 era of college rock as the first real wave of Alternative. Not that I agree with it, but it's out there.

You lost, Krol. Just admit defeat.

Tell me what you think my point was and then tell me how you countered it. So far, I seen nothing in your rambling, street person manifesto that even comes close to addressing what I believe about Cobain and friends.

[Anderson]

Tell me what you think my point was and then tell me how you countered it. So far, I seen nothing in your rambling, street person manifesto that even comes close to addressing what I believe about Cobain and friends.

I addressed your concerns about them as being what they are. The unfounded anger of an old man who wants to keep rockin' it like it's 1989.

Move on.

[BMichaelKrol]

I addressed your concerns about them as being what they are. The unfounded anger of an old man who wants to keep rockin' it like it's 1989.

Move on.

Use more specific language, so we can all be clear on what it is you think I believe. Remember son, good writing is clear writing.

And all you did was write a screed discussing and defending their spot in cultural history. Something I never challenged.

[Nathan]

Jesus. How did I miss this?

[Timothy225]

I was referencing Pitchfork's recent attempts at trying to rebrand the 1986-1990 era of college rock as the first real wave of Alternative. Not that I agree with it, but it's out there.

Link? I'd like to read what Pitchfork is saying.

I can't say for sure if '86-90 was the first real wave or not. Garage bands and the like have been around long before then, as have bands that are formed at college and never go anywhere, let alone cut a demo. I'd have to credit MTV with helping to getting the ball rolling - shows like IRS' The Cutting Edge, Alternative Nation, etc. were mainstays on campus, and required weekend viewing. Also, we had a bunch of local stations (WHTG 106.3, among many others) that were playing stuff far from the mainstream.

I was in college form '85-'89, and hung out at the college radio station, as well as local record stores like Vintage Vinyl, and I can't tell you how much I was exposed to all sorts of new stuff. It certainly seemed like a boom time for alternative/indie music for me, and it reached a crescendo when the grunge movement started.

[Anderson]

Link? I'd like to read what Pitchfork is saying.

I can't say for sure if '86-90 was the first real wave or not. Garage bands and the like have been around long before then, as have bands that are formed at college and never go anywhere, let alone cut a demo. I'd have to credit MTV with helping to getting the ball rolling - shows like IRS' The Cutting Edge, Alternative Nation, etc. were mainstays on campus, and required weekend viewing. Also, we had a bunch of local stations (WHTG 106.3, among many others) that were playing stuff far from the mainstream.

I was in college form '85-'89, and hung out at the college radio station, as well as local record stores like Vintage Vinyl, and I can't tell you how much I was exposed to all sorts of new stuff. It certainly seemed like a boom time for alternative/indie music for me, and it reached a crescendo when the grunge movement started.

I believe it's Pitchfork, but I'll need to dig it up later. It's been a few months, but it's been at the back of my brain. Especially since it feels like nothing more than an effort to discredit Nirvana.

[Anderson]

Use more specific language, so we can all be clear on what it is you think I believe. Remember son, good writing is clear writing.

And all you did was write a screed discussing and defending their spot in cultural history. Something I never challenged.

I think you believe that you're right. You feel they are culturally important, but not musically important.

You're still wrong, but you're wrong from a place that you can't help. I pity you.