Iggy Horror THread XII: Is Horror Misogynistic?

[IggytheBorg]

I dug that psuedo doc a lot more than the film itself. To this day, I have no idea what that barely audible sound that frightened our very trepid band of woodland merrymakers so badly, despite hi volume and close proximity to the speakers on a boomin' surround sound system, and judicious use of the "rewind" function.

[Captain Russ]

I think that was the only one to properly seize the opportunity of the gimmick, which was rendered cheap and shitty within moments of and the months after that film's release.

The build to it using the tools the internet had in its infancy was deftly handled, and the marketing will always be the strongest part of the entire experience, as it was allowed to build expectation with a thin veneer of legitimacy (long before the internet grew into the surprise-ruining cesspit it is today). Not knowing what the fuck a Cannes was at the time probably helped shield me from Tim's seeming unending disappointment.

I hate most found footage films. Even the ones I like are in spite of their chosen gimmick.

[B_Metal]

Love Blair Witch, no fucks given. Especially said marketing pre-spoilerpalooza, I knew it wasn't "real" but the theater experience on it was amazing as people were genuinely tense as fuck at not knowing what was coming next. That said, very very very few found film flicks come through with anything of worth.

[IggytheBorg]

It was the 1st such that I recall, so it gets points for being the pioneer, if nothing else.

[Bobby Bear]

Many thanks for the kind words, Iggy and Tim! Unsurprisingly, you both make excellent points, none of which seem overly academic to me.

It's comforting to find others who are disaffected by the current state of the genre. I was starting to wonder whether I was just being really cynical after seeing many of these truly bland movies succeed critically and commercially. What worries me a bit, though, is the 'doormat' attitude many horror fans seem to adopt. I'm all for trying to find the positives in a film, but I refuse to defend stuff like Insidious simply because it's well shot or the director seems to have good taste.

[IggytheBorg]

That having been said, I kind of liked VHS just because the vignettes, while still found footage type stuff, were not hard to see or hear (w/ the exception of the wraparound story, which was poorly shot, and the female vampire/demon one, which was hard to hear). And there was more good ol' fashioned horror (slashers, aliens, demons, etc.) than "Oooo! The ghost opened a cabinet all slow & spooky!" to be seen.

Spoilers! Read with caution! I DID, after much pondering, come up with a film that may be misogynistic, the torture porn film captivity. There seemed to be little going on there than humiliation and degradation of a woman for the gratification of men (the scene where they sick a corpse's ear in a blender and make a smoothie out of it, then force Elisha Cuthbert to drink it thru a tube comes to mind). One could argue that at least at 1st, her male co-captive suffers too, so the torturers seem to be more equal opportunity. But in the end, you find out not only was he in on it, but he was the mastermind behind the whole thing, which would seem to point at misogynistic nuances to the film. But again, there are plenty of torture porn films featuring men; Saw and its sequels, Hostel, et seq., as has been noted, and so on. It ain't a stretch to imagine there are real life sicko's out there doing just this out of hatred of women. I don't necessarily see it as hateful for that to be the motive of the killer in one torture porn film. End Spoilers!

It's been a while since I've seen it, but do you think the original "Maniac" or "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" could be viewed as misogynistic? IIRC, the killer in Maniac blows away at least one guy, more because he happened to be making out with the girl that was the onject of the killer's hatred (a la David Berkowitz taking out couples on Lover's lanes in NYC's outer boroughs). But I think all the rest of his victims were women. And I'm not sure if Henry's "Always change your MO" philosophy extended so far as to target men once in a while.

[Bobby Bear]

I thought of Henry while I was responding before, though not in a bad way. Although that film depicts brutal behaviour directed towards women, I think the combined strength of the actors, the storytelling, and just the right bleak tone ensures it never veers into the sort of clumsy territory found in more 'fanboy-ish' contemporary horror movies. It may feature characters whose hatred of women rivals those of the killers found in more dubious modern fare, but I think the way it and some of the other older movies mentioned don't seem to trigger that 'decency alarm' so readily mid-viewing (at least with me) means a lot.

The key, I think, is how such tough material is handled, rather than how tough it is necessarily; for example, camerawork that doesn't leer but retains great intensity can make a huge difference unconsciously in communicating to the audience whether what we're seeing was designed as art or something really dodgy; and in the case of Henry, that helps us to understand the filmmakers have a worthwhile reason for going to those extremes. That movie in particular benefits enormously from the sort of controlled dread I really doubt a truly depraved director could achieve.

[IggytheBorg]

a) I take it from the above, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you think VHS is misogynistic?

b) Do you think "Henry" isn't? And if that's the case, is it because the camera work, direction, and skill of the actors renders unto it enough personality that it ceases to be a filthy animal? If so, could such touches in VHS, if it were handled better, have so elevated VHS?

c) Even if Henry is misogynistic, I don't necessarily have a problem w/ that. It IS a film about a SERIAL KILLER, after all, and they're not known for their warm fuzzy feelings toward the fairer sex. That'd be a touch of realism, if it were present, if you ask me.

[Bobby Bear]

I don't think V/H/S is misogynistic necessarily. It just seems insensitive at times because it's so superficial and clumsy. I do think the things you mentioned help Henry avoid that problem.* But V/H/S stumbled largely due to the flimsiness of its premise and storytelling. I would have been much more tolerant if those segments were refined into engaging stories, rather than blatant excuses for indulgent fan-boyish nonsense.

* Henry, I think, feels convincing but still manages to remain artistic and oddly 'responsible'.

[IggytheBorg]

I had lunch today w/ a para in my office that likes horror movies. I asked if she had seen VHS, & she said she had, on my recommendation. I mentioned the debate surrounding that film, & she totally doesn't see it. Misogyny isn't what she got from it AT ALL.

[teledork]

Because she's a misogynist.