Avengers Assemble!

[Anderson]

All problems with both Avengers films come back squarely on the head and shoulders of Whedon.

People might whine and go "WELL I LIKED THE FIRST ONE!" Dude was a late hire on the first after Favreau and his team did most of the initial setup. It would be like building a house, then you get outbid on the roof. The roofer comes and slaps up an adequate roof and then turns to the potential buyer and says "HOW ABOUT THAT HOUSE I BUILT?!?"

It's very telling that when he was the man on the ground from the Moment One, his shit fell apart fast.

[FilmNerdJamie]

If Whedon wasn't so Goddamn smug is my thing. Remember how he publicly tried to take all the credit for the script?

[BMichaelKrol]

I loved Ultron. I thought it was better than the original Avengers and I enjoyed all the character moments that Whedon put in.

Remember kids, the MCU is run by Feige. There's a few flaws in that movie (the Thor cave thing) that Whedon was directed by Feige to insert.

Frankly, without Whedon's voice, these films are just going to be generic action movies.

[BillyG]

Whedon's voice sucks.

[Anderson]

I loved Ultron. I thought it was better than the original Avengers and I enjoyed all the character moments that Whedon put in.

Remember kids, the MCU is run by Feige. There's a few flaws in that movie (the Thor cave thing) that Whedon was directed by Feige to insert.

Frankly, without Whedon's voice, these films are just going to be generic action movies.

Whedon's voice is dog shit and not encompassing all of the MCU. While Feige is the showrunner, shit does get past him.

[BMichaelKrol]

So you're suggesting that he was out to lunch on Avengers 2 and Joss snuck things by him? One of the biggest and high profile movies that Marvel Studios had up to that point.

Yeah, that theory holds water.

And Whedon's voice is one of most distinct in the geek properties. He writes well and he tells stories well. That's a rare quality in genre entertainment.

[Anderson]

So you're suggesting that he was out to lunch on Avengers 2 and Joss snuck things by him? One of the biggest and high profile movies that Marvel Studios had up to that point.

Yeah, that theory holds water.

And Whedon's voice is one of most distinct in the geek properties. He writes well and he tells stories well. That's a rare quality in genre entertainment.

No. I'm suggesting he's been out to lunch on many other events. Whedon came down to a middlin' TV director trying to play his hand to further advance at Disney behind the back of his supposed super producer. It's not that Feige didn't have a handle on Whedon, he didn't have a handle on his bullshit.

Even Tobe Hooper got past Steven Spielberg.

[BMichaelKrol]

No. I'm suggesting he's been out to lunch on many other events. Whedon came down to a middlin' TV director trying to play his hand to further advance at Disney behind the back of his supposed super producer. It's not that Feige didn't have a handle on Whedon, he didn't have a handle on his bullshit.

Even Tobe Hooper got past Steven Spielberg.

What are you talking about?

[Anderson]

What are you talking about?

I was referencing the fact that a director doesn't always live under a producer's thumb. Especially when said producer is juggling multiple things at once. There's a lot more to what happened to AOU than Whedon just didn't get it right.

[BMichaelKrol]

Feige is a hands-on producer though. He basically assembles the films in the editing room and I doubt Whedon had final cut.

Regardless, Whedon's presence made AOU unique. His influence is all over phase 2. Without him, all we're going to get is generic action films.

[gravedigger]

Which is interesting because that's how he directs. Everything seems very...flat, I guess. I agree that he has good ideas but a lot of his execution otherwise leaves something to be desired.

I really think AoU was an improvement over the first movie, btw.

[Anderson]

Feige is a hands-on producer though. He basically assembles the films in the editing room and I doubt Whedon had final cut.

Regardless, Whedon's presence made AOU unique. His influence is all over phase 2. Without him, all we're going to get is generic action films.

You keep acting like Whedon superceded Branagh, The Russo Brothers, James Gunn or Reed/McKay. He didn't. He pinch hit for Taylor and Johnson (after he quit 2 weeks before post ended).

[Abraham Smashington]

Totally going to rewatch this flick this weekend.

[BMichaelKrol]

You keep acting like Whedon superceded Branagh, The Russo Brothers, James Gunn or Reed/McKay. He didn't. He pinch hit for Taylor and Johnson (after he quit 2 weeks before post ended).

The only two writer/directors that were in his league were Shane Black for Iron Man 3 and Gunn for Guardians. Also, he was overseeing Phase II, so who knows how much influence he had over those productions.

Peyton Reed did a good job with Ant-Man, but Branagh and The Russos? Come on. Thor: The Dutch Angling sucked and The Winter Soldier was an interesting experiment in genre mixing, but it lacked a unique voice. There's nothing in that script that we haven't seen before after the basic premise. Style wise, it's pretty much a generic action movie.

[Abraham Smashington]

I liked Winter Soldier much more than Ultron overall.