RUMOR CONTROL...THESE ARE THE FACTS

[Martin]

Indeed, and that's just the tip of it.

While there are certainly good movies on that list, Martin -- some legitimately great, even -- most of the better ones are either openly comedic (Shaun) or at least have a wry sense of humour which is evident throughout (Dead by Dawn, Army of Darkness, Braindead, Re-Animator.) None of the "serious" zombie movies on that list are nearly as atmospheric or effective overall as the original Day of the Dead. That's what I was really getting at. There's definitely been good work done in the interim within the zom-com sub-genre, but as for straight-up fright-fests? I'm not so sure.

Calling REC a good movie is one thing (it's alright, but it resorts to some truly lazy genre beats, especially towards the end.) Calling it vastly superior to Day? Sir, I'm afraid I don't see it. Same goes for the other serious flicks on the list. I can't comment on La Horde, though, as I've not seen it.

I'm not basing this in any way on the athleticism of the zombies in question. Whether they be fast, slow, or quasi-articulate, I don't really mind so long as there's a modicum of craft on show. A little finesse. That's a big, big part of why I'm making the case for Day. Zombie movies, by definition, should feel stifling and claustrophobic. Day oozes atmosphere and that wonderfully grimy palette really sells the dank environs of the bunker, where arms are waiting to pop out of every corner.

The gore - which has never been bettered - is a point all on to itself. It's a Savini masterclass; the man was at the very top of his game on that film. And I know there's an enduring sense of loss over the Day that could have been, but as I've said before, to say the movie we got is deficient somehow because it lacked the action those lost scenes would have delivered misses the point. Day isn't Land, and it's all the better for it. Lose that inward focus, that locked-up, sun-starved feel and you lose the very essence of Day. Just as Dawn excelled within certain restrictions, Day delivers the perfect zombie experience, a triumph of design and shambling dread.

Thank you... and goodnight.

* N.B. I just want to remind everyone that I really, really like Land now, after years of hating it.

REC works, but yes, a bit flawed, but I like the effort here. One fo the better found footage flick along with the great Chronicle.


While I give props for the work of Savini, Day of the Dead is at best an average movie. At best. The acting blows a fuckload (except Bub), and whatever munitions Romero had in Dawn of the Dead is gone in that one. He already blew his load, and now he's fucking us with a limp dick. It's more of the same from Dawn, but remove the consumerism context and the tongue-in-cheek and add hopelessness. the only interesting story is the rising humanity of the zombies... it's not a bad movie at all, but there's so much better.

Like say, one I sadly forgot yesterday. O'Bannon's The Return of the Living Dead.

As for the "comedic" movies, all of them are better horror/zombie movies than Day and Land. Do you know why Shaun of the Dead is rightfully heralded as a masterpiece? Because it's not only really funny, it's that it's a wonderful and perfect horror movie. It's pays hommage by being as good or better than the movie they spoof. Evil Dead 2 works less than Day? Come on Bobby. In a certain way, if you want, sure, Braindead and Zombieland works less atmospherically less than Day (though Bill Murray's cameo alone shatters the entire work of George Romero... as it should)

The others works in the same way, but to a less degree, but all fo them are rightfully better at the horror tropes than Day of the Dead.

The other serious ones? 28 Days Later jumpstarted the zombie craze by being a great kick in the balls with raw energy and being a great zombie movie as well as adding all the themes Romero started in the 60's. 28 Days Later is fucking great. The waking up scene alone wipes out most horror movies in their entirety. Same can be said for the first 15 minutes of the Dawn remake. These 2 alone works better than Day on every single level.

I kinda hate Snyder, but that remake is the shit.

So, Day of the Dead? Not a bad movie, but great things came before, and great things after it. It's just a very average movie.

[Ben Thomas]

I come down somewhere in between the two of you, but this is the best discussion I've seen on here for a while.

On Snyder's Dawn remake - it really is great, but its also kinda hollow. It would have been so easy to work a little of the subtext of the original into it and it would have been a near classic. I do find out it fairly emotional though, which is something.

[B_Metal]

28 Days Later is great just for the car alarm that made everyone in our theater shit fear.

[Martin]

I come down somewhere in between the two of you, but this is the best discussion I've seen on here for a while.

On Snyder's Dawn remake - it really is great, but its also kinda hollow. It would have been so easy to work a little of the subtext of the original into it and it would have been a near classic. I do find out it fairly emotional though, which is something.

Totally agree with you. The remake is hollow, especially compared to the original. But it sure is effective.

Heck, Snyder's filmography is just that: hollow good looking stuff.

[Martin]

Fuck, now I REALLY want to rewatch 28 Days and Dawn.

[Abraham Smashington]

Land > Day

Day (gore) > Land

[Martin]

Pretty much. The Joe Pilato WonderRip is a classic.

[Abraham Smashington]

Day has its heart in the right place but it doesn't quite work due to budgetary restraints.

[Ben Thomas]

Great trailer though. I used to have this on an ex-rental VHS of Jake Speed when I was a kid and it used to creep me the fuck out:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7NMcHByxUyM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Bobby Bear]

While I give props for the work of Savini, Day of the Dead is at best an average movie. At best. The acting blows.... It's more of the same from Dawn, but remove the consumerism context and the tongue-in-cheek and add hopelessness. the only interesting story is the rising humanity of the zombies... it's not a bad movie at all, but there's so much better....

As for the "comedic" movies, all of them are better horror/zombie movies than Day and Land. Do you know why Shaun of the Dead is rightfully heralded as a masterpiece? Because it's not only really funny, it's that it's a wonderful and perfect horror movie. It's pays hommage by being as good or better than the movie they spoof. Evil Dead 2 works less than Day? Come on Bobby.

I'm not saying Evil Dead II works less than Day, man.They both want different things (to make us laugh and thrill us, respectively.) I'm saying Evil Dead II, as a horror-comedy, cannot be a truly effective straight horror movie like Day can. By definition. It doesn't set out to scare us in that sort of way. It's a spook-a-blast. Maybe a couple of jumps or a wince or two at something grisly, but that's it. Just the same way Shaun wants to push our romantic buttons as much as anything else.

All that time those movies (and the others mentioned like Zombieland, et al) are doing those other things, Day is doing one thing and one thing only: killing Nazis-- err, building mood. Scaring us. Whatever you want to call it. That's why I just can't accept those other combo films as better "zombie" pictures than Day, as good as they are in their own ways. They're horses of the same stock, but ultimately different colours, and won't be racing in the same competitions.

*end of laboured horse wordplay*

I would argue -- and have done here and elsewhere, at length -- that Richard Liberty's performance in Day is the best I've ever seen in a (serious) zombie movie. The quality of his work alongside Howard Sherman, who also excelled, cannot be understated. Pilato gets the quotes, not undeservedly, but Liberty is the unsung hero, the lynchpin.

Whenever I discuss Day with other zombie fans, I often get the impression most people hold its very concept against it. They prefer their zombie movies on a larger scale -- more epic, less intimate -- so they plump for Dawn over Day. Pretty much anything except the really weak sauce later stuff like Survival over Day, really. I find this upsetting because, as much as Dawn has its charms, the much-lauded "theme" is about as thinly drawn as it gets. Page 1 film school theory stuff, not to be nasty about it. When you take that away, you've got a lot of haphazard gore and action of varying quality (most of it bad), a truly unnecessary sequence or two (the pie-fight that doesn't want to end), and some of the shakiest acting this side of a Corman quickie (anyone you'd care to name.)

It's fun, sure, but it all plays like a dress-rehearsal for Day, the movie where Romero really had all the plates spinning. The tone: brutal, uncompromising. The language: positively Glaswegian. The look: in-tense. No other zombie movie presents such an engaging battle against the impending hordes and the madness of cabin fever. You can't go up -- they're everywhere. You can't go down -- the strung-outs waiting underground are almost worse than what's slobbering around on the surface. What's an Irish helicopter pilot to do?

You've even got that wonderful plonking score to tie it all together. Come on, feel the Survival Horror love!

I understand where you're coming from re: Shaun and the other films mentioned, but they're not what I mean. I'm talking about movies which unsettle, that work the way a "pure" horror movie would. Day has some tremendous humour in it, but it knows what it's about. Dread. Unease. Walls that seem narrower every time you walk them. Repulsion.It shows true understanding of its genre's tropes in a way films with lighter tones simply can't.

I come down somewhere in between the two of you, but this is the best discussion I've seen on here for a while.

On Snyder's Dawn remake - it really is great, but its also kinda hollow. It would have been so easy to work a little of the subtext of the original into it and it would have been a near classic. I do find out it fairly emotional though, which is something.

Thanks, mate! I enjoy Snyder's Dawn for what it is as well.

Land > Day

Day (gore) > Land

"We meet again at last. The circle is now complete." Etc.

[Bobby Bear]

Radio operator. The man operated the radio. He did not -- repeat not -- pilot da choppah.

"What was I on?" - Herschel Krustofski.

[B_Metal]

6 year old came to me last night with a netflix request. I'm sure most of you are thinking some cartoon, like Transformers or whatever. Nope. Little man was like "Dad, can we get a zombie movie on netflix?"

CAN WE? You're damned right we can kiddo. I know 6 may be early but he knows it's actors and not real, and for some reason he just digs zombie stories.

[Ben Thomas]

So what did you watch?!

[B_Metal]

Well we started The Horde but subtitles didn't suit him so I threw on Walking Dead's first episode. I KNOW I KNOW. But I couldn't find anything using the search on the Wii. Tonight we will find a better representation, although that first ep of Walking Dead is actually pretty good despite it's super failtastic approach later on.

[Bobby Bear]

"Daddy, what's a 'Fulci?'"

"Funny you should ask, kiddo..."