What Emmanuelle Movie Did You Just Watch?

[BillyG]

I think I may watch it again this weekend.

Who the fuck am I kidding, COD, Skyrim and birthday secks. Sorry Clive, another day.

[Matt]

Yeah, I see SKYRIM usurping any kind of movie time.

[V]

Children of Men is fucking amazeballs.

Clive and Michael do wonders... but Chiwetel Ejiofor raises the fucking bar... AGAIN!

Why he does not have an Oscar™ yet still fucking amazes me.

[B_Metal]

If you dig Chiwetel Ejiofor, then check out Red Belt. He's damn good in it too.

[Martin]

Children of Men

Ok, I get it now. I've always admired the film, but yes, it is a modern masterpiece. Its a film that is going to age incredibly well and grow in stature as it ages. What struck me this time was how out there premise actually is - not only is it pure pulpy sci-fi on the one hand, its a blatant Jesus allegory on the other. But the reason those things don't stick out or detract is because of how well the simple hook explores its themes and how well-grounded the world and the approach to that world are. I won't go over the way its shot cos that's surely been done to death - I will say, the bike attack is still an incredibly tense set-piece thanks to the way its shot - but it feels as though the reality of this future was very well researched. From little things like Clive Owen wearing a London 2012 Olympics sweater, or Micheal Caine accurately predicting 2008's flu pandemic to the way technology is integrated into the world and the evolution of society under extraordinary circumstances, it doesn't ever insult you. It convinces you, all the way and manages to resonate emotionally as well. A brilliant film, in all departments.

Indeed, a masterpiece. The famous 1 minute take with the tank and all is amazing, but the moment the baby cries and everyone stops, well, that choked me up. How something so simple, that we take for granted, represents so much and manages to stops bullets for a few minutes.

[Martin]

Saving Private Ryan

Still pretty great after all these years. And after all these years, I still want to strangle that fucking piece of shit coward that Jeremy Davies plays so well. I've rarely hated a character like that one.

[Lisa]

Hey hey HEY! You watch your dirty whore mouth about Jeremy Davies! He became one of my imaginary boyfriends the minute he set foot on the set of "Lost"!

But seriously - although his character is nothing but a sniveling coward, he does play him well, and it's a great character despite him failing to save his friend. The one thing about SPR that I've always loved is that it shows a grittiness about WWII that was almost never portrayed in film. Think about any WWII movie you've ever seen - it's always "Wave the flag, hooray USA, heroes heroes heroes". You never see a really ugly side of war being depicted until films about Vietnam started coming out. Before that, it was always patriotism and minor cuts and bruises. Every war is hell, but you never saw the really hellish side of war in a WWII film. SPR was the first WWII film that said, "Oh, and by the way? These guys got blown to bits too", which we see in the first scene.

I think that also carries into their characters - odds are in the Golden Age of Hollywood, you wouldn't have seen an American WWII soldier puss out like that - he'd have charged in and rescued his buddy, even at the expense of his own life. If SPR had been made in 1954, let's say, Jeremy Davies character would have been momentarily scared, but would have attacked the German, saved his friend and died a hero. But in showing the more human aspect of a character, a more realistic one, we see him for what he really is, what anybody could be - a young kid, never been in a combat situation before, and scared shitless for his own skin. He knows he's wrong, he knows he's a coward - he's not curled up crying in that stairwell because he's proud of himself. He wants to charge in there and save his friend, but he's just too scared to move. His friend is brutally murdered, he knows he could be stopping it, but he doesn't. It sucks, but I think it's a much more realistic way of how things sometimes go down.

[BillyG]

I think Davies might be the best thing about that movie.

[V]

But in showing the more human aspect of a character, a more realistic one, we see him for what he really is, what anybody could be - a young kid, never been in a combat situation before, and scared shitless for his own skin. He knows he's wrong, he knows he's a coward - he's not curled up crying in that stairwell because he's proud of himself. He wants to charge in there and save his friend, but he's just too scared to move. His friend is brutally murdered, he knows he could be stopping it, but he doesn't. It sucks, but I think it's a much more realistic way of how things sometimes go down.

You make a salient point, but there's more to it than that.

When you become (or should I say 'transform'?) into a soldier, there are certain characteristics pounded into you from day one. The most important one, at least it was to me, was the value of your squadmates. Didn't matter if you liked them or hated them... they become closer to you than family. In essence, they ARE your family. You sleep with them, eat with them, get drunk with them... cry, laugh, fight, and often die with them.

I don't know how they conducted training back then... but today, a new soldier is assigned a 'battle buddy'. You do everything with your 'battle'. You learn each other's jobs, you train together, but you also train yourselves to operate as a single mind. This helps instill the ethos that 'teamwork is everything'... and it is.

I cannot speak for the 'Big Army' types... since I worked with them so infrequently. But the professional warriors I served with for the greater part of my career would have gladly and selflessly offered their lives to save a fallen comrade. With absolutely no hesitation on their part.

Truth be told, that was one of the reasons that film struck a sour note with me. All of us are cowards, and that is as certain as the sun rising in the morning. I've panicked under fire myself more often than I care to count... but you take a deep breath and you drive on with the mission. Because it's what you've been trained to do.

Sorry... I'll go back in the kitchen now.

[Lisa]

See, this is why we have good discussions here! Someone with a military background and the experiece to say, "Here's what he was trained to do and should have done".

As for the mass market "Big Army" - I know back then, from what my Mom told me, unless you had something physically wrong with you that kept you from enlisting, you joined the glorious fight or you were a coward. You fought for the red, white and blue. Didn't matter if you were just some neighborhood kid who'd never been on a plane and who never picked up a gun - you got up off your ass and enlisted. My uncle, who died in a B17 mission, was only about 5'3". What'd they have him do? Ball turret gunner, he was the littlest guy on the squad. But you went, you joined, no matter how small you were, unless you couldn't. When I was little, and I used to lament that he died in WWII so I never got to meet him, she said, "Well, honey - he'd have never stayed behind while his friends went off and risked their necks. He was able to fight, so he went." She pointed out that it even meant him leaving my mom and grandmother home alone in Atlantic City, since my grandfather had already died, but he still went.

However - I think Jeremy Davies character still makes one important point - he's human. And despite the training, that "Stick by your squad at all costs" mindset may not be absolute if you have a kid who's just too plain scared to cope when the shit hits the fan. What's a person really going to do when pressed to the wall? Well, you won't be able to guarantee that until it happens.

[Timothy225]

Love this movie, as did many vets I know who said "yeah, that's what it was like." So many great and harrowing moments - the one that still freaks me out is Melish's death, with Steamboat Willie telling him "Shhhh. Shhhh." Where most of the deaths in the flick were noisy (at least you hear the guns go off), that death alone had me cringing and bugged me for days afterward.

Also, thanks for the insight, Vin.

[Martin]

But seriously - although his character is nothing but a sniveling coward, he does play him well, and it's a great character despite him failing to save his friend. The one thing about SPR that I've always loved is that it shows a grittiness about WWII that was almost never portrayed in film.

.

I absolutely agree. as I wrote above. And thanks for the input Vin.

I'm pretty sure his character barely made bootcamp, and is only there because he speaks German. And I wanted to strangle him because like you said, he struck a very real note for all of us.

And yeah, totally agree with Goldberg's character's death. Still is really powerful.

[Bobby Bear]

Fantastic discussion, team. I don't understand the Saving Private Ryan backlash; sorry, I do understand it - some cats just want attention - but it doesn't make a button of sense because it's fantastic.

It's really interesting how many of you, like me, consider it to be a much more emotionally complex war film than some. I took a class at uni about cinema and psychoanalysis* and one time our tutor showed a quick clip from the opening sequence where two American soldiers gun down some surrendering German troops at point blank range. This seemed, to him, to be a sign that S.P.R. belonged in the same camp as a lot of other "RED, WHITE, AND BLUE SAVES THE DAY... AGAIN!" flicks, but I totally disagree. That moment is just another reminder of how far Steve's willing to go in order to show the ugly side of humanity.

I love Adam Goldberg, by the way. Boy's such an underrated actor and that film is just one example why.

* You would not believe the girls who took this class. How any work ever got done is an ongoing marvel.

[Lisa]

I'm pretty sure his character barely made bootcamp, and is only there because he speaks German. And I wanted to strangle him because like you said, he struck a very real note for all of us.

And yeah, totally agree with Goldberg's character's death. Still is really powerful.

Exactly, he's a translator, so he was only brought along for his language skills. He's the classic 90 lb. weakling who has no combat skills to speak of, so when the shit hits the fan, he crumbles.

Goldberg's death hits extra hard because it's just so creepy and unsettling. This guy doesn't get blown up or go down in a hail of gunfire. It's that nightmarish, "Shhhh, shhhhh, shhhh...", like he's pacifying a child who woke up from a nightmare, all the while very slooowly sliding the knife further and further down into his chest. As far as movie deaths go, that's one that will sit with audiences for years.

our tutor showed a quick clip from the opening sequence where two American soldiers gun down some surrendering German troops at point blank range. This seemed, to him, to be a sign that S.P.R. belonged in the same camp as a lot of other "RED, WHITE, AND BLUE SAVES THE DAY... AGAIN!" flicks, but I totally disagree. That moment is just another reminder of how far Steve's willing to go in order to show the ugly side of humanity.

You're right, Bobby, and your tutor is incredibly wrong. Like I said before, movies prior to SPR were mostly "Rah rah America!" in their depiction of WWII. But that's what makes SPR so powerful - it finally depicts WWII the way the more recent movies depict Vietnam. It shows that these guys were torn apart, same as in any other war.

[Martin]

Fantastic discussion, team. I don't understand the Saving Private Ryan backlash; sorry, I do understand it - some cats just want attention - but it doesn't make a button of sense because it's fantastic.

It's really interesting how many of you, like me, consider it to be a much more emotionally complex war film than some. I took a class at uni about cinema and psychoanalysis* and one time our tutor showed a quick clip from the opening sequence where two American soldiers gun down some surrendering German troops at point blank range. This seemed, to him, to be a sign that S.P.R. belonged in the same camp as a lot of other "RED, WHITE, AND BLUE SAVES THE DAY... AGAIN!" flicks, but I totally disagree. That moment is just another reminder of how far Steve's willing to go in order to show the ugly side of humanity.

I love Adam Goldberg, by the way. Boy's such an underrated actor and that film is just one example why.

* You would not believe the girls who took this class. How any work ever got done is an ongoing marvel.

What I don't get is the love for The Thin Red Line while dissing Saving Private Ryan. I love cinema, but I've had more fun watching clouds fuck with each others.

And your tutor was plain wrong or retarded, Bobby. That scene you mentioned was simply showing how circumstances affect one's moral compass, just like the "don't shoot, let them burn!" line. These guys took suck a beating and lost so many friends that the moral thing for them is killing these Germans.

Simple basic human emotion, really.