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Iggy Horror Thread III: What Scares the Japanese?

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  • Iggy Horror Thread III: What Scares the Japanese?

    I've been pondering this question for a long time. I don't purport to be an expert on J-Horror. I don't think I've seen any of the classics in their Japanese incarnations, except "Audition". I have seen The American versions of "The Ring", "The Grudge", "Dark Water" and "Pulse". Maybe a couple more slipping my mind at the moment.

    Truth to tell, except for "The Ring", I haven't really liked any of them. I'm thinkin' that's maybe because my American ass just doesn't get it. So that got me to wondering: What is it about these films that makes them SO scary to the Japanese? What cultural taboos or insecurities are being tapped? And how are they different from ours? And Am I being obtuse in that (for the most part) I DON'T find them all that scary? Do other, perhaps less Ugly Americans, shiver in all the right places?

    So I started looking for common threads in the limited exposure I have to the films in this sub genre. Things I've noticed include:

    1. The creepy revenants of killed kids hauntng the protagonist. We see this most effectively done in "The RIng", IMO, with Marissa's video assisted hijinx. I have to admit that the scene toward the end when her wavery, B&W image comes right the fuck out of the TV made me flinch a bit. That was truly creepy. But for me, at least, it was because of the inevitability of her slow, implacable advance, and the exceedingly well done jump scare her unexpectedly coming OUT of the TV into the real world caused. Her being a crepy kid had little if anything to do w/ it for me. But the prevalance of creepy dead kids in "The Grudge" and "Dark Water" lead me to believe this image or concept resonates with the Japanese on some level I admit I do not truly understand. As an American filmgoer, I concede that, yeah, they're creepy, but would any other ghost, if properly rendered, be just as creepy to an American audience? Are they somehow creepier because they're kids (to us or the Japanese)? As much as I advocate the use of violence vs. kids in horror films as a device sure to get an audience to squirm in terror, I just don't get an especially terifying vibe from the dead kids in J-horror simply by virtue of the fact that they are dead kids. Does anyone have any insight into the special place this holds in the hearts & minds of the Japanese? Or is this just a case of all the Japanese filmmakers imitating "Ringu", and American re-makes following suit?

    2. Drowning. This seems to be the preferred method in J Horror flucks for creating the creepy dead kids noted above. It's featured prominently in "The Ring", "The Grudge" & "Dark Water". By all acounts, drowning is a horribly painful way to die. And we have an instinctive fear of it (hence the success of waterboarding as a method of torture). But for some reason, American filmmakers seem to avoid its widespread use (at least, as far as I can tell; if I am wrong about this, please point that out). But drowning sems to hold a special place in the hearts & minds of the Japanese, and I'll be damned if I know enough about their culture to hazard a guess as to why. Any insights on this point are welcome here indeed.

    3. Hair. Marissa's locks drooped greasily down over her face in "The Ring". Tendrils dogged the protagonists in "Dark Water" and "The Grudge". On this point, I think I do have a half assed theory. I recall seeing a pictorial in Playboy in the 80's, wherein several centerfold photos were re-shot for the Japanese version of Playboy, with the change being the addition of panties to cover the pubic hair of the playmates. The caption explained the Japanese Playboy can't show pubic hair. So I'm guessing this is some wierd (to us) cultural taboo. I'm guessing that the Japanese find hair to be gross on some level, although I'll be damned if I know why. I guess you could say our own culture abhors blood in much the same way (witness: the scene in "The Shining", where the elevator doors open up and blood spills out, filling a room to the point the furniture floats to the top of the frame). But the question remains in my mind: why hair? What is it that causes hair to frighten Japanese filmgoers so?

    4. Family members as the killers. And especially parents. Parents drowned their soon-to-return-to-haunt-the-protagonists kids in all the J Horror I've seen except "Pulse". Surely, the idea that a parent, in whom we as children place all our trust, regardless of culture, betraying that trust and murdering their own flesh & blood is a terrifying proposition. And while I'm at a loss at the moment to think of American cinematic examples of this, I'm sure someone explored the phenomenon. But its ubiquitous nature in J Horror leads me to conclude that the Japanese find it esprcially disturbing for some reason. Have they simply hit upon a universally scary idea before we evolved our films to take widespread advantage of it? Or is there, again, a deeper cultural meaning at work here?

    Insights and discussion welcomed, encouraged, & hell, required. Please post some here.
    I like the way the line runs up the back of the stocking.


    2012 Avatar Theme: Jan-Red Borg. Feb-Red Borg, Mar-Red Borg, Apr-Red Borg, May-Red Borg. Jun-Red Borg. Jul-Red Borg. Aug-Red Borg. Sep-Red Borg. Oct-Red Borg. Nov-Red Borg. Dec-Red Borg.

  • #2
    Quick silly answer. Vaginas with tentacles.

    Long answer after I think about the topic.
    We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves.
    - Francois de La Rochefoucauld

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Howard View Post
      Quick silly answer. Vaginas with tentacles.

      Long answer after I think about the topic.
      I was actually coming in here to say that.
      "Looking like Nic Cage dressed in Kurt Cobain's closet. I mean that as a compliment" - BillyG

      "Too cunty for wine bars, too dainty for real bars." - Anderson

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      • #4
        Also, most of their porn censors out the actual genitals, so the "fear of hair" seems like a valid point.
        "Looking like Nic Cage dressed in Kurt Cobain's closet. I mean that as a compliment" - BillyG

        "Too cunty for wine bars, too dainty for real bars." - Anderson

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        • #5
          Great thread as always, Iggy!

          A lot of the above themes Iggy raised go back to Japanese history:

          1. Ghosts have always had a firm foothold in Japanese culture. Honoring one's ancestors through prayer and offerings, demons (oni), etc. - Japanese history's filled with all things ectoplasmic, and I believe it's still there to an extent. It sort of segues to Iggy's take on the family in point 4 - family was everything to the Japanese from the Shougunate to the peasant, somewhat similar to family structure and importance back in Rome. Honoring the family was paramount, with dishonor meaning expulsion or death in some cases. Carrying such themes into horror creates a resonant chord in the average Japanese viewer, as most have families and have been raised in a culture that hammers that point home.

          2. Drowning is pretty easy to figure out, in addition to Iggy's valid points. Japan's a group of islands when all's said and done, and fishing has always been a huge source of income to Japan. Japanese fishermen were doing Deadliest Catch centuries before the TV show, and failure to find fish, sinking ships, drowning, etc. were paramount concerns. A fisherman dies, there goes a family's source of income and food.

          3. Hair, and I'm probably off on part of this, is another cultural thing going back centuries. Hairdos for samurai, ladies of the court, etc. are clean heavily styled, etc. more as a sign of social rank and class, as those folks can afford to look their best. Having messy hair meant you were poor, unkempt, etc. and were looked down and pushed around by your superiors. This changed through time, though as I do notice, watching anime, you can tell who the hero is by checking out his/her hair - wild hairdos usually mean the character is rebellious, adventurous, etc. which is sort of what you want your hero to be so he stands out.

          As for the covering of pubes, the Japanese have always had a thing about obscuring that region on women. I'm not sure if it's about pubes, but more about that area being where life comes from, so it could (and I'm speculating here) be that's the reason.

          4. I think I covered the family aspect in #1. Everyone usually expects their family to have their back in most cases, unless your kith and kin are dysfunctional which, sadly, isn't that far off for many. Family betrayal, dysfunction, etc. from out of nowhere is always chilling and has mirrors here in the West. Hellraiser's a great example - minus all things Cenobite, Kirsty and the audience watch as a guy's own brother steals his bro's new wife, then helps kill him, and then steals his appearance, while coveting his own niece. Damn creepy.

          Also, no mention of Godzilla and other monsters of rather large size? Atomic energy and Japan... no need to draw a map here, but that shit originally scared the fuck out of the Japanese when the first Gojira flim came out. Symbolism of the monsters as foreign invaders aside, the fact that atomic energy led to their births/mutations raised as much horror back in the day as your average wet haired ghost kid does now.

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          • #6
            As a hater of pubic hair, I applaud the Japanese government and their hard-line stance against it!

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            • #7
              They live in fear of your big, American penis, Vin!



              Never had a problem with ladies' pubes, just gotta keep that stuff neat and trimmed if ya do, and the same holds true for us menfolk. Keep yo junk clean!

              Back on topic - where would one fit Battle Royale and Takashi Miike's films in all of this? My knowledge and viewing of Miike's films is sadly limited.
              Last edited by Timothy225; 10-29-2010, 07:49 AM.

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              • #8
                When you shave the pubes, you gain the 'Optical Half-Inch'.

                It's not just good hygiene... it's science!

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                • #9
                  I'd say there is something to the spectre of atomic warfare, or at least there was at one point.

                  Being hungover makes this all for naught since I can't bring any specifics to the table at this time.

                  Something something Gojira something something
                  Me quick one want slow

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                  • #10
                    *BRAINFART*

                    There's also the general unease (or outright disdain) regarding youth culture, as it stands with the younger generations that have forgone any sense of tradition or reverence for their elders, in favor of perversion and the like to consider.

                    That's when a Battle Royale and it's ilk might come in: where it takes a ridiculous caricature of society and shows a panicking government intervening to stem the tide of youthful revolt.

                    Either way, it's one half-assed addition to mull over.

                    *FARTBRAIN*
                    Me quick one want slow

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Timothy225 View Post
                      They live in fear of your big, American penis, Vin!
                      [Bill Clinton Voice] It's positively dinosaurian.
                      I like the way the line runs up the back of the stocking.


                      2012 Avatar Theme: Jan-Red Borg. Feb-Red Borg, Mar-Red Borg, Apr-Red Borg, May-Red Borg. Jun-Red Borg. Jul-Red Borg. Aug-Red Borg. Sep-Red Borg. Oct-Red Borg. Nov-Red Borg. Dec-Red Borg.

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                      • #12
                        In reviewing this thread & its replies, I am struck by how many of these taboos that turn up so frequently in J Horror were present in Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining". We have creepy kids (the ghostly twins taunting Danny), parental betrayal (Jack Torrance chasing Danny thru the hedge maze like Grady did before him), drowning (The decomposing old hag that makes out w/ Jack apparently died that way), and hair (I mean, let's face it, Jack & Shelly had some pretty awful do's goin' on). Japanese horror fans must fucking LOVE this movie.
                        I like the way the line runs up the back of the stocking.


                        2012 Avatar Theme: Jan-Red Borg. Feb-Red Borg, Mar-Red Borg, Apr-Red Borg, May-Red Borg. Jun-Red Borg. Jul-Red Borg. Aug-Red Borg. Sep-Red Borg. Oct-Red Borg. Nov-Red Borg. Dec-Red Borg.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IggytheBorg View Post
                          In reviewing this thread & its replies, I am struck by how many of these taboos that turn up so frequently in J Horror were present in Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining". We have creepy kids (the ghostly twins taunting Danny), parental betrayal (Jack Torrance chasing Danny thru the hedge maze like Grady did before him), drowning (The decomposing old hag that makes out w/ Jack apparently died that way), and hair (I mean, let's face it, Jack & Shelly had some pretty awful do's goin' on). Japanese horror fans must fucking LOVE this movie.
                          Don't forget the advent of furry fetishism...

                          Last edited by Captain Russ; 10-29-2010, 08:52 PM.
                          Me quick one want slow

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by IggytheBorg View Post
                            In reviewing this thread & its replies, I am struck by how many of these taboos that turn up so frequently in J Horror were present in Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining". We have creepy kids (the ghostly twins taunting Danny), parental betrayal (Jack Torrance chasing Danny thru the hedge maze like Grady did before him), drowning (The decomposing old hag that makes out w/ Jack apparently died that way), and hair (I mean, let's face it, Jack & Shelly had some pretty awful do's goin' on). Japanese horror fans must fucking LOVE this movie.
                            Wow. Never even considered that, but you raise a very intriguing hypothesis. Was Kubrick influenced or inspired by J-horror themes and conventions? On the surface, it might not seem like it but if you dig just a little, it's very apparent that there has to have been some awareness of a few thematic elements then present in the Japanese horror genre.

                            Well done, Iggy! Well done INDEED! I actually learned something!

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                            • #15
                              Saw this on wikipedia, under J-Horror:

                              "The success of the 1998 film Ring brought the image of the yūrei to Western popular culture for the first time, although the image has existed in Japan for centuries.
                              Yūrei are Japanese ghosts, ones who have been bound to the physical world through strong emotions which do not allow them to pass on. Depending on the emotion that binds them, they manifest as a particular type of ghost. Most common to Japanese horror is the onryō, a yūrei bound by a desire for vengeance.
                              Like many creatures of folklore, like vampires or werewolves, yūrei have a traditional appearance and follow a certain set of rules.
                              They are generally female, although male yūrei do exist. They wear white clothing, which is the color of funeral garb in Japan. They have long, often unkempt black hair, which comes from the tradition of ancient Japanese women growing their hair very long and wearing it pinned up, only letting it down in death."

                              Answers the hair issue!

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